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Beaudin: Can I suggest .... I think we need to establish a better list of uses and a more concrete list of uses for the minor use permit process and here's just frankly what happened. We looked into all of the CUPs over the last couple of years and we couldn't find any that fit really well into this category so far so we're going to cast a wider net and see which uses may not fit and ultimately, this minor use permit concept just might not have a use that fits there right now. We committed to exploring this idea because what we hear a lot of times is that the CUP process is too onerous but it's hard to have a conversation with you tonight in a really meaningful way because we don't have a list of uses we'd like to put into that bucket and create that streamlined process for, and I think your question, Commissioner Balch, is valid except that we're not even sure that a use like that is going to end up in here. I think we've got some uses we think could work but the 20 students is a lot depending on the size of a shopping center and I think if you think of a music school, maybe it's two rooms and they have up to five kids on site at any given time, maybe that's a different scenario than 20, and 20 might work at a site that has a 200,000 square foot office complex so even just putting the number of students in here gives me pause. Commissioner Balch: Maybe where I'm also going and I hadn't gotten there during question time, is does age play a factor. I was an applicant which I lost horribly in front of the Planning Commission which is actually what got me involved in city government whereby the age of the 20 students was approximately 8 -10 year olds. So it was really a day care trying to produce itself as some other use because it couldn't get into an approval route that it wanted to do and the applicant's position at the time was basically then, well code enforcement will have to come get me and we know how over - the -board he is. And it's such a .... why I'm talking up this particular one with the chamber orchestra, you know, yes it was a private club and that's a valid point but a slight change in the narrative and it's a music facility, right? Beaudin: So I'll say that again, I think the uses we identify for this have to be a lot more concrete so you can have a real conversation and then, you know, for the games that people play, I mean I've seen people play all different ways right? You write the narrative for the project, you get your approval and suddenly it's something else. That's just kind of the nature of the game that some people are willing to play in the communities where they want to operate. They fairly quickly get identified and they become problematic and then they're essentially removed or they get through the right process and they get the right approvals and some people do it by accident and some people don't, and so I don't want to write the regulations around the folks who are going to try and circumvent the process because they'll always exist. So I think getting the right uses and trying to set up a framework that allows us to be successful to help people efficiently get into a space is the right mindset, but I think it needs to be more concrete to help you decide if it's right. Commissioner Balch: I have no further questions. Commissioner Nagler: So let me just say in this context, I know you want to.....but let me just say, the idea of coming up with a category of CUPs that are so minor however that's defined and so routine however that's defined that it ought not cost the applicant as much time and money and need not take the time of this Commission is a laudable PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES, August 31, 2016 Page 37 of 58