PC 091212 - Laserfiche WebLink

extent. She added that she thinks nobody should be encouraged to hang out in front of businesses unnecessarily. Commissioner Blank agreed with Commissioner Pearce and added that he thinks the Commission talked about that paragraph earlier as being somewhat problematic. Commissioner Pearce agreed and brought up Commissioner Blank's earlier comment that the language is also pretty loose in that the business owner is being held responsible for someone who hangs out in front of the building four hours after it was closed. Commissioner O'Connor stated that it was mentioned earlier that sometimes it is good to have crowds as it creates vitality. He expressed concern about how "loitering" is defined and questioned if a crowd of people outside a business talking and getting ready to go to some other place would be considered loitering. Commissioner Pearce referred to No. 7 and questioned if "a verifiable violation by enforcement staff' means the staff comes out with a decibel reading and says it is too loud and writes it down. Commissioner Narum stated that she is a little uncomfortable with the way this is written as well. She indicated that she is not sure this is quite the language she would want to see here. Commissioner Pearce agreed. Ms. Ott stated that she conferred with Captain Craig Eicher from the Police Department, and Captain Eicher indicated that loitering is defined by the California Penal Code, and the challenge is that it is relatively unenforceable by communities because it is a Constitutional right. Commissioner Biank questioned why the City would include something that cannot be enforced. Chair Pentin commented that he thinks it is just part of the good neighbor policy, and the business owner would go outside and tell them that it would really be appreciated if they disperse and come back tomorrow so as not to bother the neighbors. Commissioner Pearce commented that they can loiter; they just cannot be loud while they loiter. Commissioner Narum stated that she is fine if they want to change it. PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES, September 12, 2012 Page 31 of 35